Javier Melloni: "It is necessary to recognize that there is a truth in the other that I cannot see."
PALMA DE MALLORCA
In a time when self-proclaimed agitators of conscience abound, Jesuit Javier Melloni Ribas (Barcelona, 1962) could be called an awakener of souls. He has lived in the Cave of Saint Ignatius in Manresa, Catalonia, for twenty-five years, where he directs the spirituality center and gives talks, courses, and workshops that integrate Christian contemplative prayer with Eastern meditation. The Path of Contemplation is the name of this modality that made Melloni a leading figure in Spain for a more modern and integrative way of embracing spirituality.
Many people reject religion, but not spirituality. They come to it through Eastern meditations, which are not dogmatic.
A doctor of theology, a graduate in cultural anthropology, and an expert in interreligious dialogue and comparative mysticism, he is the author of some twenty books, including Paths to Transformation and We Are Their Secret , his latest.
He has taught at the Faculty of Theology in Catalonia and has spent his life preaching the healing power of silence. The unique sanctuary where he lives, 60 kilometers from Barcelona, was built on the rock of a cave where Saint Ignatius of Loyola secluded himself almost 500 years ago. It was there that he gave birth to his famous Spiritual Exercises .
Born to an Italian father and a Spanish mother, Melloni was ordained a priest at 18. So precocious was his vocation that, at just three years old, he announced to his parents that he would become a priest, while demanding quiet moments, perhaps stunned by the noises of a home with five children, but also anticipating what would become the great theme of his life.
From a young age, Melloni was drawn to the East. In his early thirties, he lived in India for a year, a country he later returned to seven or eight times. Before his first trip, he wondered what so many young Westerners were looking for in that distant culture. “They were looking for a non-dogmatic experience of God, respectful of each person,” he replies today. “Everything that was considered rude in my family, like going barefoot or eating with your hands, is what we do there. There is an immediacy with nature, with food, with intimate experience, and with life. Without mediation. Here, between us and the ground, there is a shoe sole that protects you from the cold and dirt, but also insulates you from contact with the earth. Gandhi said there is nothing more anti-spiritual than a chair.”
– Let’s start by defining spirituality.
–Spirituality refers to the immensity of the intangible. The term comes from spiritus , meaning air. It is the most subtle experience of the material, and each religion interprets it differently.
Interreligious dialogue is not only a just and peaceful position, but also a genuine concern for the truth that exists in the other, with humility and courage.
– Do religion and spirituality go together?
–I believe that religions are interpretations, never exhausted, of the spiritual. To experience it, you only need to be alive. I would say that today there is a new, more comprehensive consciousness that embraces science, psychology, the arts, and different religious forms, interpreting them in a non-dogmatic way. It's a progressive leap of consciousness on a global level. I believe the world is changing. There is polarization and resistance, both from some politicians and from those who voted for them, but this precisely shows that there is a change. We must stop criticizing and fearing politicians and act differently. Lead a sober, simple life, focused on silence and caring for nature.
– Is there a secular spirituality?
Many people reject religion, but not spirituality. And they reach it through Eastern meditations, which have the advantage of not being dogmatic. Each person gives God the name or form they feel comfortable with. It's another way of entering into silence, in a moment of accelerated pace of life. Catholics embrace it without abandoning their essence, because meditation doesn't go against Christianity.
– What function do religions serve, then?
–They are geohistorical interpretations of the ineffable, of the mystery of life and death, of love and heartbreak, ethical conduct, etc. They are institutional lungs for breathing the sacred, although spiritual paths do not end there.
– What did you bring from India?
–The sacredness of life in its immediacy, without the devices we've built for ourselves that separate us from the direct experience of God. When we speak of the East and the West, we're talking about two existential categories; cognitive ones, too. What characterizes the latter is the drive to transform the exterior, to desire and conquer. The Eastern drive is to transform the interior.
– You have made a synthesis.
–Well, I was attracted to Zen, but being in the Cave and a Jesuit, I couldn't just introduce it. I had to offer something of Christian origin that was also open. And in this regard, the visit to Manresa by a Hungarian Jesuit named Franz Jalics [born in Budapest, Jalics taught theology in Argentina, where he spent five months at the ESMA, kidnapped by the military dictatorship] was extremely important. The fact that a theologian with a long history of contemplative life had synthesized East and West from the perspective of the Christian tradition made me recognize myself within my group.
Pope Francis stepped on the gas on a few issues. Leo XIV continues that line, but will slow down. I think it was the best choice.
– What is the difference between prayer and meditation?
–Prayer begins from the “I” of the person praying to the divine “you,” without fully realizing who that “I” is that is praying. In contrast, in meditation, one becomes aware of the “I” and the “you.” And in that “I” and “you,” there is a unity that is different from the unity generated through prayer. There is no “you” because there is no “I.” There is a silence that transcends the “I” in a state of presence, where there is nothing left to ask for. It is a state of presence that produces an opening beyond the “I.”
– Always mention silence.
–Silence is needed to stop the obsessive flow of thoughts. Once you experience it, you can't go back, because silence is an initiatory experience.
– But most people don’t seem to have time for this.
–Well, we must be revolutionaries and decide to be silent, at least one hour a day, instead of watching television or using WhatsApp. The best of every religious tradition communes there. What will save humanity is its ability to embrace the wisdom of all religions.
– What do we mean when we say conscience?
–Consciousness is not the mind, which is a biological, neuronal product; binary, we could say. The great error of the West is to think that mind and consciousness are the same. Created in the image and likeness of God means that we have been given consciousness, cosmic, total consciousness. And that is beyond religions and at the same time within religions. It is the great novelty and the great hope of our time.
The first meeting with Father Melloni took place a few days after Pope Francis's death, and he recalled it this way: "It has been a full life. I think we've had twelve unexpected years, because given his health, we never imagined he would be able to be with us for all this time."
– What could you tell us about the arrival of Leo XIV?
–Your opening words resonate with me: promoting an unarmed, disarming, humble, and persevering peace. Unarmed means nonviolence. Disarming, because it not only disarms the person who begins with that intention, but it eventually infects the other person as well, God willing. Humble, because it's not pretentious or haughty, nor does it lecture anyone. And persevering because the path of nonviolence is a long one, as Gandhi said. But we must be convinced that there is as much truth in the other as there is in me. It's very difficult, but there is no other way. When one party attacks and makes another a victim, we know that the aggressor has been attacked before, and that's why they attack with such force, because in the fear of the aggression they received, they have a compulsive reaction. It's necessary to be able to understand. Because without understanding, there can be no peace either.
– Let's think about the conflict in the Middle East. How can we be confident that disarmament on one side will lead to disarmament on the other?
–Again, unarmed and disarming peace. If I truly disarm myself, I'll also help disarm the other person. It's a point of trust. Persistent and resilient. But it has to be on both sides. And you have to start somewhere.
– You're a specialist in interreligious dialogue. Where are we at?
At the beginning of this century, there was a certain boom, a certain hope that religions could truly meet. But I must admit, twenty years later, there's a certain weariness. What's the next step for interreligious encounter? No religion will, and shouldn't, renounce its own beliefs. So, where can we meet? We must understand that interreligious dialogue is not only a just, peaceful position, but also a genuine interest in the truth that lies within the other, which I don't understand from my own perspective. That requires great humility and courage.
– Don't you think that the dogmatism of religions conspires against this dialogue?
–Of course, of course, the big problem with religions is that, being a path toward the absolute, they make the path they take toward the absolute into an absolute. All religions go to the same place, but not along the same path. That's why each religion is different.
– A great task lies ahead for the churches.
–That's right. The great challenge is the problem of identity. How can I love and sustain my own identity—be it religious, but also cultural, ethnic, gender, whatever—and at the same time recognize yours? That's the big issue.
– It seems more of a spiritual issue than a religious one.
–Yes, it's a spiritual issue, because it applies to all aspects of a person's life. The problem with religion is its temptation to appropriate the spiritual. Religion is a necessary community organization, but it doesn't exhaust the spiritual paths of human beings. This should be a time of humility for religions.
– Will the Church take steps in this direction?
–You're giving them. But consider that it's a Church of more than a billion people. We're so many. I understand that the Church is called to be a community of communities. A broad, general, global belonging, attentive to the acceptance of differences.
– It seems like something far away. Hotbeds of war keep popping up around the world.
–Never before has a profound recognition been so necessary that there is a truth in the other that I cannot see, and that I need to accept it for there to be lasting peace. That is what dialogue is all about.
– The Church also faces other challenges: the presence of women, sexual diversity, the separated…
–Well, I think we have to lose our fear. We have to live life to the fullest extent possible, to the fullest potential, and listen at every moment for the appropriate response that is required. Behind taboos lie fears. We have to reflect on the difference between Jesus and the Pharisees. The Pharisees, who were the religious leaders of that time, were good people who separated themselves from the impure to maintain purity. This is precisely what "Pharisee" means: separated. But of course, a person who separates themselves from everything is afraid of everything. An institution like the Catholic Church, which lives in that great diversity of more than a billion people, has to ensure unity, but also integration. Because we can't wait to change until we all agree, because then we'll never change anything.
– Do you think this Pope will continue the changes his predecessor began?
–Pope Francis has stepped up his pace on a few issues. Leo XIV is on the same path and will continue it, but he will be more cautious. He will go a little slower. I believe the best possible person has been chosen.
– What do you think about near-death experiences?
–Ultimately important, indispensable. Today, they are a meeting point for spirituality, psychology, biology, neurology. All of this is increasingly open. We will have more and more tools to discover that here and there are not as separate as we thought. There are many access doors to the beyond from here and from there to here.
– Have you experienced it?
–Yes, but that’s as far as I go.
– Do heaven and hell exist?
-Of course.
– Where are they?
–We continually create heaven or hell with our reactions. There's a beautiful Zen story. There was a warrior worried about all the people he had killed, and about the subject of heaven and hell. A friend sent him to consult with a wise old hermit. “Does hell really exist? Does heaven exist? Or is it an invention of ours?” asks the warrior, dressed in his finest clothes. The wise man asks him what he does. “I see you dressed as a clown,” he says. “A clown, how? Can't you see I'm a captain of the emperor?” the warrior replies indignantly. “I don't know, you look like a clown to me.” Then the captain draws his sword to cut off his head. “Go, right now you are opening the gates of hell,” the hermit tells him. The samurai calms down and sheathes his sword. “Go,” the old man tells him. “Now you have opened the gates of heaven.”
EXPERT IN INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
PROFILE: Javier Melloni
Javier Melloni Ribas (Barcelona, 1962) is an anthropologist, doctor of theology, and religious phenomenologist. Several trips to India have allowed him to connect elements of Hindu and Christian mysticism.
A Jesuit and scholar of the Ignatian Spiritual Exercises, Melloni has extensive knowledge of the texts of various religions. In his work as a spiritual guide, he integrates elements from different traditions.
He is a member of Christianity and Justice and a professor at the Faculty of Theology of Catalonia. He lives at the La Cueva de San Ignacio spiritual center in Manresa.
He founded Camino de Contempación, a network of people for spirituality through silence, which promotes Christian contemplative prayer inspired by the proposal of Jesuit Franz Jalics.
Among other books, he wrote The One in the Multiple (2003), Human Relations and Relations with God (2006), Glimpses of the Real (2007), The Essential Desire (2009), Voices of the Mystic. Invitation to Contemplation (2009) and The Inner Christ (2010), Towards a Time of Synthesis (2020), Paths to Transformation (2025).
His latest book is We Are His Secret (Herder, 2025), which postulates that reality itself is a manifestation of God.
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